Ten days that shook the world
A photo exhibit kicks off the 20th anniversary of the Velvet Revolution and places events in a larger context
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The opinions expressed in this discussion do not necessarily represent those of The Prague Post.
#2 Posted by
Karel Bures
Sep 10, 2009 4:44 pm CET
It's true what you say, Jiri. Britain, France, to a lesser extent Belgium and Holland have accepted large numbers, relatively speaking, of peoples they colonised over the decades. The price of empire I expect. But, it's also the price of war as the USA and this country, Australia, have accepted large numbers of peoples from, first, Vietnam and more recently Iraq. Americans of course accepted a lot of Koreans after the Korean War. Japan, though, is a bit different. There may very well be many Koreans and even Chinese living in Japan, but they are accepted only as foreigners, gaijin; they can never become Japanese citizens. I've had a bit to do with the Japanese and things Japanese over the years; the westernisation, sensationally successful as it appears, is only skin deep. And I am cautious about using the whole idea of "change" in the context of both intra- and international affairs, with the present 'difficulties' between Slovakia and Hungary being a case in point. You know, the more things change, the more they stay the same. "Change" in these times is an instrument of the optimist. I'm more the optimistic pessimist. Strewth, one can imagine NATO bombers being despatched to bomb Bratislava and Budapest to settle the matter, a la Belgrade in '99. But I digress.
#3 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 10, 2009 4:03 pm CET
"Scots are generally fine people. I met a lot of them over my working life and found them to be, irrespective of social standing, intelligent, affable, generous and industrious. Yes, they can be very forthright, and often a bit on the prickly side, but at least you know where you stand with them. No disrespect to the English intended, but the Scots are noticably different from the English. Scots are closer to Czechs in temperament than they are to the English. I find the slurs used by the English against the Scots a bit on the nose to tell you the truth."
Hey Karel,
I have no problem with your comment in that context.
There is no pure nation in the whole world.Perhaps Japanese, after eliminating their aboriginals,come close to it having had "closed society" in their country for millenias.But even in Japan it is changing -former Korean war slaves being integrated into mainstream and of course American influx after WWII.
All the former colonial states of western world are now reaping what they sowed long time ago as very large number of people from their former colonies is coming to their former master's countries to even more dilute their already diluted "stock."
This is a reality of today's world would you not agree?
Hey Karel,
I have no problem with your comment in that context.
There is no pure nation in the whole world.Perhaps Japanese, after eliminating their aboriginals,come close to it having had "closed society" in their country for millenias.But even in Japan it is changing -former Korean war slaves being integrated into mainstream and of course American influx after WWII.
All the former colonial states of western world are now reaping what they sowed long time ago as very large number of people from their former colonies is coming to their former master's countries to even more dilute their already diluted "stock."
This is a reality of today's world would you not agree?
#4 Posted by
Karel Bures
Sep 10, 2009 3:21 pm CET
Jiri Hubacek, my wee cock sparrow, a long, long time ago your ancestors may have been known as the MacHubaceks, of the Hubacek clan. Unlikely, but you never know ...
Scots, Irish, Bretons, whatever, the traces of Celtic habitation in the Czech lands are evident.
The name of Prague's famous river, Vltava, is of Celtic origin, as is the name of the Czech Republic's second city, Brno - I believe it was originally something like Bryn and it meant a high place. And don't they play bagpipes in southern Bohemia? Are you sure, Jiri, that all the Celts left when the Czechs moved in in circa 500AD? Why would they have left? Would it have been the garlic breath of the Czechs?
Scots are generally fine people. I met a lot of them over my working life and found them to be, irrespective of social standing, intelligent, affable, generous and industrious. Yes, they can be very forthright, and often a bit on the prickly side, but at least you know where you stand with them. No disrespect to the English intended, but the Scots are noticably different from the English. Scots are closer to Czechs in temperament than they are to the English. I find the slurs used by the English against the Scots a bit on the nose to tell you the truth.
Scots, Irish, Bretons, whatever, the traces of Celtic habitation in the Czech lands are evident.
The name of Prague's famous river, Vltava, is of Celtic origin, as is the name of the Czech Republic's second city, Brno - I believe it was originally something like Bryn and it meant a high place. And don't they play bagpipes in southern Bohemia? Are you sure, Jiri, that all the Celts left when the Czechs moved in in circa 500AD? Why would they have left? Would it have been the garlic breath of the Czechs?
Scots are generally fine people. I met a lot of them over my working life and found them to be, irrespective of social standing, intelligent, affable, generous and industrious. Yes, they can be very forthright, and often a bit on the prickly side, but at least you know where you stand with them. No disrespect to the English intended, but the Scots are noticably different from the English. Scots are closer to Czechs in temperament than they are to the English. I find the slurs used by the English against the Scots a bit on the nose to tell you the truth.
#5 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 10, 2009 1:51 pm CET
"Researching the origins of the name 'Bohemia' may offer insight into Scots. Chances are, I may be geneticaly more Czech than Jiri. History; as in the article; is useful in understanding where one comes from, and also where one needs to go."
Thank you Ian that you actually research some history unlike many people on the site that don't.
So you think we are brothers?
Unlikely.Celts left the area of today's Czech republic at about 500 A.D.and Slovans came into the area sometime afterwards.Did you hear about Samo's Empire?Perhaps you got the idea from that because most of historians believe that Samo was Celt.
Thank you Ian that you actually research some history unlike many people on the site that don't.
So you think we are brothers?
Unlikely.Celts left the area of today's Czech republic at about 500 A.D.and Slovans came into the area sometime afterwards.Did you hear about Samo's Empire?Perhaps you got the idea from that because most of historians believe that Samo was Celt.
#6 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 9, 2009 2:34 pm CET
It is now more than 250 years since infamous Battle at Culloden in which English massacred not only their enemies Scots in their military victory but also systematically all of their wounded ones and then went even further and ethically "cleared" families of Scots that were suspected of being Jacobites.Men,women and children.Hence "Culloden Clearing."
This was done in the "spirit" of one of the kings of England of the past .This king said:The only trouble with Scotland is that it is full of Scots.
Of course the barbarism of English is well know from the history through their colonial wars in which they eliminated indiscriminatelly anybody that stood in their way.
British Isles(today's term)were in the past invaded by Romans,Normans and half hearted effort by the ever meddling France( no slouch in their own barbaric colonial wars,as well as several more western European countries)There is no pure blood Englisman really.They originated from Celts(their half brothers and sisters,)then they were diluted by Romans and
Normans.Today,they are called Anglo-Saxons.
Even their present monarchy is half German.(Hanovers)
Scotland would do well to remember the Battle of Culloden and see the decission by today's semi-autonomic Scottish parliament to release convicted terrorist from Libya that blew the plane of innocent people over Lockerbie.
The sentiments of reason given for this decission by spokesman of parliament could possibly be applied even to Hitler,Stalin and Mao.
This was done in the "spirit" of one of the kings of England of the past .This king said:The only trouble with Scotland is that it is full of Scots.
Of course the barbarism of English is well know from the history through their colonial wars in which they eliminated indiscriminatelly anybody that stood in their way.
British Isles(today's term)were in the past invaded by Romans,Normans and half hearted effort by the ever meddling France( no slouch in their own barbaric colonial wars,as well as several more western European countries)There is no pure blood Englisman really.They originated from Celts(their half brothers and sisters,)then they were diluted by Romans and
Normans.Today,they are called Anglo-Saxons.
Even their present monarchy is half German.(Hanovers)
Scotland would do well to remember the Battle of Culloden and see the decission by today's semi-autonomic Scottish parliament to release convicted terrorist from Libya that blew the plane of innocent people over Lockerbie.
The sentiments of reason given for this decission by spokesman of parliament could possibly be applied even to Hitler,Stalin and Mao.
#7 Posted by
ian dowie
Unregistered user
Sep 9, 2009 1:32 pm CET
Prague - Some 81 percent of Czechs are of the view that politicians abuse the interpretation of the constitution to further the interests of parties and their own power, not for the sake of democracy of Czech citizens, according to a poll conducted in the Internet by the SANEP polling agency and passed to CTK.
This is a picture of text. Publish date 09/09/2009
See photograph on Ceske noviny.
'We must put a pike in it' Havel 06/09/2009
This is a picture of text. Publish date 09/09/2009
See photograph on Ceske noviny.
'We must put a pike in it' Havel 06/09/2009
#8 Posted by
ian(galic for jan) dowie
Unregistered user
Sep 8, 2009 6:29 pm CET
Researching the origins of the name 'Bohemia' may offer insight into Scots. Chances are, I may be geneticaly more Czech than Jiri. History; as in the article; is useful in understanding where one comes from, and also where one needs to go.
#9 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 8, 2009 4:45 pm CET
...And Scots accepted their fate-grinding their teeth-drinking their morning "draught" of beloved whisky,often going on with another and another until they fall.They wrapped themselves in their kilts and as great gift to humanity invented the golf and curling.
They even accepted the sport of English called football, Celtics and Rangers of Glasgow being the best.
Many years passed,English- feeling that there is no danger from Scots asking for independence and mellowing somewhat in the new world-gave to Scots the right for semi-autonomous parliament to appease those descendants of Jacobites.
And so life went....
They even accepted the sport of English called football, Celtics and Rangers of Glasgow being the best.
Many years passed,English- feeling that there is no danger from Scots asking for independence and mellowing somewhat in the new world-gave to Scots the right for semi-autonomous parliament to appease those descendants of Jacobites.
And so life went....
#10 Posted by
ian dowie
Unregistered user
Sep 8, 2009 8:47 am CET
The article is my guidline; personal chatter; I insist on being an ordinary person. 20 years further on the absurd situation of a few 'special evevated' indivduals holding the Lisbon treaty to ransom. The new gulag; the muzzle law' although tempered; was never put in its proper context.
The background to that law remains a greater danger than the law itself; and all involved know that. Other dangers in the area of asset aquisition without accountability lurk in undermining the work of 'ordinary people'. The new generation have thier own lives to live; maybe unforseen events will see them rolling back the history books.
I try to write as I see an article; and I am glad I do.
The background to that law remains a greater danger than the law itself; and all involved know that. Other dangers in the area of asset aquisition without accountability lurk in undermining the work of 'ordinary people'. The new generation have thier own lives to live; maybe unforseen events will see them rolling back the history books.
I try to write as I see an article; and I am glad I do.
#11 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 8, 2009 1:44 am CET
Once upon a time there was a little country called Scotland.
Its people were living a simple lives,mostly minding their own business, and enjoying their Highlands games.
However,to the south of their little kingdom,bad people lived.They called themselves English.English coveted the cold country of Scotland very much and invaded Scotland several times.Scots fought back as much as they were able with much smaller population they had but to no avail.
There came time that an ultimatum was given to the rulers of Scotland to unite with England as one country.
The nobility that were making decision in scottish Parliament gave up to the ultimatum and acceded to Court of Queen Anne ,dissolving own parliament and the seat of own government in Edinburgh.
Some serfs of this nobility agreed to this forced union as they understood they will not have any help from anybody in possible fight with English.
Some of them sailed to the coast of South America trying to establish colony that would bring a glory to their Scotland.
Two big bad wolfs of experienced colonists- England and Spain- would not let any successs happen to this Scotish colony named Darien.Utopia of Darien never happened.
Scotland was destined to be for ever part of Great Britain.Or was it?
The exiled King James in exile in ever meddling country France had many friends in Scotland-they called themselves Jacobites.
Together with France they plotted to invade Scotland and install James back on his throne(in actuality it was his son that was part of this sea invasion.)
As it happened,this sea invasion failed miserably and Scotland was ever more jubjugated to their enemies-England.
Come to think about it 350 years later similar situation happened in Cuba,
Expatriate Cubans emigrating to USA tried the same trick and invaded Cuba which was under different type of government.This was a Battle of Bay of Pigs.They too failed.
Its people were living a simple lives,mostly minding their own business, and enjoying their Highlands games.
However,to the south of their little kingdom,bad people lived.They called themselves English.English coveted the cold country of Scotland very much and invaded Scotland several times.Scots fought back as much as they were able with much smaller population they had but to no avail.
There came time that an ultimatum was given to the rulers of Scotland to unite with England as one country.
The nobility that were making decision in scottish Parliament gave up to the ultimatum and acceded to Court of Queen Anne ,dissolving own parliament and the seat of own government in Edinburgh.
Some serfs of this nobility agreed to this forced union as they understood they will not have any help from anybody in possible fight with English.
Some of them sailed to the coast of South America trying to establish colony that would bring a glory to their Scotland.
Two big bad wolfs of experienced colonists- England and Spain- would not let any successs happen to this Scotish colony named Darien.Utopia of Darien never happened.
Scotland was destined to be for ever part of Great Britain.Or was it?
The exiled King James in exile in ever meddling country France had many friends in Scotland-they called themselves Jacobites.
Together with France they plotted to invade Scotland and install James back on his throne(in actuality it was his son that was part of this sea invasion.)
As it happened,this sea invasion failed miserably and Scotland was ever more jubjugated to their enemies-England.
Come to think about it 350 years later similar situation happened in Cuba,
Expatriate Cubans emigrating to USA tried the same trick and invaded Cuba which was under different type of government.This was a Battle of Bay of Pigs.They too failed.
#12 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 7, 2009 10:27 pm CET
It's good to see that the Czech Republic's best-known artist sees things the same way as I do:
"DAVID CERNY sends a rude text message to two bronze sculptures of naked, urinating men, which proceed to swivel their hips and move their protruding penises to trace his four-letter words into a pond shaped like a map of the Czech Republic.
To Mr. Cerny, bad boy of the eastern European art world, the playfully subversive computer-controlled duo - installed a few years ago in a sleepy courtyard here - are an apt commentary on the self-deprecating Czechs, who he contends have gritted their teeth through centuries of invasion and occupation, barely resisting and seldom winning at anything." [New York Times, Sept. 4th 2009]
"DAVID CERNY sends a rude text message to two bronze sculptures of naked, urinating men, which proceed to swivel their hips and move their protruding penises to trace his four-letter words into a pond shaped like a map of the Czech Republic.
To Mr. Cerny, bad boy of the eastern European art world, the playfully subversive computer-controlled duo - installed a few years ago in a sleepy courtyard here - are an apt commentary on the self-deprecating Czechs, who he contends have gritted their teeth through centuries of invasion and occupation, barely resisting and seldom winning at anything." [New York Times, Sept. 4th 2009]
#13 Posted by
DeAnna Fling
Unregistered user
Sep 7, 2009 1:08 pm CET
Thank you for bringing this exhibit to the attention of your readers. Yes, we must preserve our history so that future generations will know what hardships can come under Socialist rule. It would be of great significance if this could become a traveling exhibit. We Czech Texans love to hear and read about our homeland.
#14 Posted by
anon anon
Unregistered user
Sep 7, 2009 8:30 am CET
re Jir&Peter; these days...a gay marriage is not to shocking...its only a suggestion.... best of luck
#15 Posted by
anon anon
Unregistered user
Sep 7, 2009 7:53 am CET
Reading the article several times; which I assume is relevant. I wonder what is the grass roots perception of the constitutional court; not 20 years ago; today. These days photography might land you a 5 year prison sentence; depending on the interpretation by the legislative machine. Current efforts by senior statesmen to ensure elections take place seem to be the responsible thing to do. In 20 years protest has become null and void. The minister for minorities and human rights; recently refused to meet with 'extremist' senetors. If that does not set alarm bells ringing in the peoples ears; then thats ok. The delaying of elections with the sole intention collaberation with other right wing MEP'S to 'scuttle'' the Lisbon treaty needs the Czech press more than ever.
#16 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 6, 2009 8:44 pm CET
Jiri: If you are able to address the points I made in my original post in a more mature manner please do so.
#17 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 6, 2009 8:32 pm CET
Petra,
True level of your mentality and intelligence came finally through although we had many hints and examples of it in some of yours comments over the last few years.
When your inane sophistry and rationalizations did not work,you came to this.
As my last comment to you I want you to know that all the governments in Europe proper-while maybe having philosophical differences with USA-will always depend and look forward to USA for their military needs.It is far less expensive for them to do so.
It is called RealPolitics in Germany.They may pay a lip service to some of their less practical citizens but will always do what is needed from their own perspective.
As to your "business".Your overt,arrogant contempt for the people you work with and your inability to check the circumstances prior to going to business in Czech Republic as well as inability to adjust to these circumstances due to a closed mind virtually assured that your business is only marginally(or nonexistently)profitable.
Like an alkoholic,you carry your liabilities with you where ever you go hoping that next place will be better.
Well,it won't.
Good Bye.
#18 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 6, 2009 5:24 pm CET
>>>I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
Blah blah blah.....
If your "facts" are not based on truth and knowing your obstinacy there is no use in trying to counter most of your assertions.You can't even see that you are contradicting yourself from the post to post.
Blah blah blah...
>>The statement of "insignificancy of numbers"of the people killed in Prague Spring betrays your philosophical bias.
I think that 49 is "small" compared with 5.4 million. I am sorry that you disagree with this.
>>>Old proletariat had(and still has)a slogan: "Kdyz se seka les,letaji trisky"-to express their feelings about the deaths of innocent people in the conflicts they precipitate.It seems to me,that you concur with this slogan when it suits you.
Blah blah blah...
>>As far as cold war,it is true that it is over,however as western European countries-on average-spend less then 2% of their GNP on their military needs their governments will do anything to keep USA forces in Europe.
Yeah right. Perhaps you need to come to Europe one day. Your thinking stopped in 1968, when your mummy and daddy took you to Canada.
>>If USA will ever decide to leave Europe(there are rumblings!!)a very large percentage of GNP will have to be invested by western Europe to even have a capability to defend itself if ever needed.
Against whom? North Korea?
>>Europe has a "rich" history of wars so don't say that nobody will ever attack it.
And when was the last time anyone attacked "Europe"? Presumably when the US and the USSR carved it up into spheres of influence at Yalta.
>>>Besides,the world is globalized now,enemies can come from anywhere.
Perhaps they will come from outer space, as your friend Ronald Raygun suggested.
Blah blah blah.....
If your "facts" are not based on truth and knowing your obstinacy there is no use in trying to counter most of your assertions.You can't even see that you are contradicting yourself from the post to post.
Blah blah blah...
>>The statement of "insignificancy of numbers"of the people killed in Prague Spring betrays your philosophical bias.
I think that 49 is "small" compared with 5.4 million. I am sorry that you disagree with this.
>>>Old proletariat had(and still has)a slogan: "Kdyz se seka les,letaji trisky"-to express their feelings about the deaths of innocent people in the conflicts they precipitate.It seems to me,that you concur with this slogan when it suits you.
Blah blah blah...
>>As far as cold war,it is true that it is over,however as western European countries-on average-spend less then 2% of their GNP on their military needs their governments will do anything to keep USA forces in Europe.
Yeah right. Perhaps you need to come to Europe one day. Your thinking stopped in 1968, when your mummy and daddy took you to Canada.
>>If USA will ever decide to leave Europe(there are rumblings!!)a very large percentage of GNP will have to be invested by western Europe to even have a capability to defend itself if ever needed.
Against whom? North Korea?
>>Europe has a "rich" history of wars so don't say that nobody will ever attack it.
And when was the last time anyone attacked "Europe"? Presumably when the US and the USSR carved it up into spheres of influence at Yalta.
>>>Besides,the world is globalized now,enemies can come from anywhere.
Perhaps they will come from outer space, as your friend Ronald Raygun suggested.
#19 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 6, 2009 2:57 pm CET
I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
Again, you have no facts to counter my arguments, so you resort to childish name-calling.>>
If your "facts" are not based on truth and knowing your obstinacy there is no use in trying to counter most of your assertions.You can't even see that you are contradicting yourself from the post to post.
The statement of "insignificancy of numbers"of the people killed in Prague Spring betrays your philosophical bias.
Old proletariat had(and still has)a slogan: "Kdyz se seka les,letaji trisky"-to express their feelings about the deaths of innocent people in the conflicts they precipitate.It seems to me,that you concur with this slogan when it suits you.
Hence,large number of death in Congo(although grossly exagerated by you)is explained.
As far as cold war,it is true that it is over,however as western European countries-on average-spend less then 2% of their GNP on their military needs their governments will do anything to keep USA forces in Europe.
If USA will ever decide to leave Europe(there are rumblings!!)a very large percentage of GNP will have to be invested by western Europe to even have a capability to defend itself if ever needed.
Europe has a "rich" history of wars so don't say that nobody will ever attack it.Besides,the world is globalized now,enemies can come from anywhere.
Again, you have no facts to counter my arguments, so you resort to childish name-calling.>>
If your "facts" are not based on truth and knowing your obstinacy there is no use in trying to counter most of your assertions.You can't even see that you are contradicting yourself from the post to post.
The statement of "insignificancy of numbers"of the people killed in Prague Spring betrays your philosophical bias.
Old proletariat had(and still has)a slogan: "Kdyz se seka les,letaji trisky"-to express their feelings about the deaths of innocent people in the conflicts they precipitate.It seems to me,that you concur with this slogan when it suits you.
Hence,large number of death in Congo(although grossly exagerated by you)is explained.
As far as cold war,it is true that it is over,however as western European countries-on average-spend less then 2% of their GNP on their military needs their governments will do anything to keep USA forces in Europe.
If USA will ever decide to leave Europe(there are rumblings!!)a very large percentage of GNP will have to be invested by western Europe to even have a capability to defend itself if ever needed.
Europe has a "rich" history of wars so don't say that nobody will ever attack it.Besides,the world is globalized now,enemies can come from anywhere.
#20 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 6, 2009 9:08 am CET
>>>Democratic Republic of Congo conflict
>>>And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...
>>>There is not?Then why did you bring it up in the first place,you moron?
I was explaining how insignificant the tiny number of people killed in the "Prague Spring" actually was.
>>I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
Again, you have no facts to counter my arguments, so you resort to childish name-calling.
>>>And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...
>>>There is not?Then why did you bring it up in the first place,you moron?
I was explaining how insignificant the tiny number of people killed in the "Prague Spring" actually was.
>>I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
Again, you have no facts to counter my arguments, so you resort to childish name-calling.
#21 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 5, 2009 11:49 pm CET
>>Democratic Republic of Congo conflict was fully precipitated by leftist forces that eventually ended being victorious and promptly turned country into old style communist totalitarian state.They did not need any European country or USA in order to kill others in their quest for "Utopia."
And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...>>>
There is not?Then why did you bring it up in the first place,you moron?
I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
You are- as always- cherry picking the points you want to reply to.To rationalize is your way to promote your ideas,such as they are.Very infantile logic indeed.I heard better from pre-teens.
You said that you can hardly wait to get out of Czech Republic.I am quite sure that there are many people over there that will be very happy when you will go.Most of all your employees,if you indeed have any.
And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...>>>
There is not?Then why did you bring it up in the first place,you moron?
I am not going to even going to try to reply to the rest of your loony nonsense.It is irrational and not based on truth.
You are- as always- cherry picking the points you want to reply to.To rationalize is your way to promote your ideas,such as they are.Very infantile logic indeed.I heard better from pre-teens.
You said that you can hardly wait to get out of Czech Republic.I am quite sure that there are many people over there that will be very happy when you will go.Most of all your employees,if you indeed have any.
#22 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 5, 2009 9:37 pm CET
>>Further to it,USA had nothing to do with East Timor-Australia was involved there.
The US gave the green light to the invasion, and both the US and the UK backed up the Indonesians with arms and money.
>>As to hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed that is true-except absolute majority of them against each other.
Because of the ethnic tensions stirred up by the US.
>>They were brave enough to invade Kuwait (the country with no army to speak off)but caved in all too soon when they were invaded by coalition forces in both first and second war that was waged on them.
They invaded Kuwait (which had been part of Iraq for 4000 years) because it was stealing Iraqi oil. But what has this got to do with anything? Certainly it has nothing to do with the present war, which is about stealing the country's oil, destabilizing the region, providing lucrative contracts for people in high places and providing an excuse for a permanent military base. Kuwait wasn't even the real excuse for the First Gulf War.
>>Democratic Republic of Congo conflict was fully precipitated by leftist forces that eventually ended being victorious and promptly turned country into old style communist totalitarian state.They did not need any European country or USA in order to kill others in their quest for "Utopia."
And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...
>>As to your claim that Czech people voted communists to govern is patently not true-easily confirmed by anybody knowing our history.
This happened in the 1946 election, when they won 38% of the vote. If the communists then took a bit more power - who else was to blame but the morons who voted them in in the first place?
>>No country in the world is free under the totalitarian rule to do much about the political situation in their country.
On the contrary. There are many examples of dicatorships which have been brought down by revolutions: the US-backed dictatorship of the Shah of Iran is an obvious example. The only way any goverment can rule is if the majority of the population lets this happen. Unfortunately Czech people are extremely passive and cowardly and have, therefore, always been dominated by other powers.
>>Military is by design an extension of totalitarian government
Most obviously in the US.
>>if USSR decided to invade Western Europe without USA forces being present it would be probably no contest) That is still a reason why USA will be militarily present in Europe for a very long time.
Unlike you, most of us have noticed that the Cold War has long since ended. For us in Europe the main threat to world peace is the US, not the USSR (which no longer exists, by the way).
The US gave the green light to the invasion, and both the US and the UK backed up the Indonesians with arms and money.
>>As to hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed that is true-except absolute majority of them against each other.
Because of the ethnic tensions stirred up by the US.
>>They were brave enough to invade Kuwait (the country with no army to speak off)but caved in all too soon when they were invaded by coalition forces in both first and second war that was waged on them.
They invaded Kuwait (which had been part of Iraq for 4000 years) because it was stealing Iraqi oil. But what has this got to do with anything? Certainly it has nothing to do with the present war, which is about stealing the country's oil, destabilizing the region, providing lucrative contracts for people in high places and providing an excuse for a permanent military base. Kuwait wasn't even the real excuse for the First Gulf War.
>>Democratic Republic of Congo conflict was fully precipitated by leftist forces that eventually ended being victorious and promptly turned country into old style communist totalitarian state.They did not need any European country or USA in order to kill others in their quest for "Utopia."
And? I am sorry, I can't see the connection with the Czech Republic here...
>>As to your claim that Czech people voted communists to govern is patently not true-easily confirmed by anybody knowing our history.
This happened in the 1946 election, when they won 38% of the vote. If the communists then took a bit more power - who else was to blame but the morons who voted them in in the first place?
>>No country in the world is free under the totalitarian rule to do much about the political situation in their country.
On the contrary. There are many examples of dicatorships which have been brought down by revolutions: the US-backed dictatorship of the Shah of Iran is an obvious example. The only way any goverment can rule is if the majority of the population lets this happen. Unfortunately Czech people are extremely passive and cowardly and have, therefore, always been dominated by other powers.
>>Military is by design an extension of totalitarian government
Most obviously in the US.
>>if USSR decided to invade Western Europe without USA forces being present it would be probably no contest) That is still a reason why USA will be militarily present in Europe for a very long time.
Unlike you, most of us have noticed that the Cold War has long since ended. For us in Europe the main threat to world peace is the US, not the USSR (which no longer exists, by the way).
#23 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 5, 2009 6:26 pm CET
Actually I did.
Further to it,USA had nothing to do with East Timor-Australia was involved there.
As to hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed that is true-except absolute majority of them against each other.
They were brave enough to invade Kuwait(the country with no army to speak off)but caved in all too soon when they were invaded by coalition forces in both first and second war that was waged on them.
Democratic Republic of Congo conflict was fully precipitated by leftist forces that eventually ended being victorious and promptly turned country into old style communist totalitarian state.They did not need any European country or USA in order to kill others in their quest for "Utopia."
By the way,any country that has the word "Democratic, Socialist or People's" in its official name is a totalitarian country.Truth of that is plain to see by reasonable people.
Read the constitution of People's Republic of China to see my point.
As to your claim that Czech people voted communists to govern is patently not true-easily confirmed by anybody knowing our history.
No country in the world is free under the totalitarian rule to do much about the political situation in their country.Military is by design an extension of totalitarian government and its police and State Security forces are directly involved in all aspects of daily life of the citizens.
Prague Spring (Dubcek era)was immediatelly followed by invasion by Warshaw Pact dominated by USSR.Czechs and Slovaks had no chance at all against that.(come to think about that,if USSR decided to invade Western Europe without USA forces being present it would be probably no contest)That is still a reason why USA will be militarily present in Europe for a very long time.
As to my calling you names,I think you deserve this,after all you are denigrating whole nations not just individuals.
I have no problem with any of the nations that are a part of Great Britain-I have a problem with the boorish fools that do not really represent the rest of their people.
#24 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 5, 2009 3:46 pm CET
Jiri: since you cannot address any of my points with facts you resort to childish name-calling.
#25 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 5, 2009 2:51 pm CET
I would like to bring forward a little known fact about the post WWII situation in Europe.
Churchill briefly contemplated to attack Red Army and march into USSR to get rid of its government.
His own generals told him that his idea was at the best "very fanciful"as Red Army had almost three to one numerical superiority in Germany at that time.
If Stalin did not get what he wanted whole of Europe would be learning Russian in their schools as a second language as they did in Eastern Europe-that includes Great Britain.
Churchill briefly contemplated to attack Red Army and march into USSR to get rid of its government.
His own generals told him that his idea was at the best "very fanciful"as Red Army had almost three to one numerical superiority in Germany at that time.
If Stalin did not get what he wanted whole of Europe would be learning Russian in their schools as a second language as they did in Eastern Europe-that includes Great Britain.
#26 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 5, 2009 2:42 pm CET
< fact is that the Czechs voted the communists into power; made little or no attempt to remove them for over twenty years; made a very half-hearted attempt to do so in 1968 and then gave up completely. The events in 1989 were mirrored throughout the Warsaw Pact countries and were obviously not engineered in this country.
"There are two reasonable conclusions. Either socialism was much better than present propaganda suggests it was, or else it was as bad as that, but the Czechs were too passive and cowardly to do anything about it.
In any case, compared with the true heroism and courage of millions of people around the world who suffer real oppression and are making a serious attempt to free themselves from it, the attempts to do so in this country over the whole of its recorded history are a sad little joke.>
Petra,
I don't quite know where to start.
Your infantile attempt at logic,using comparison from various conflicts around the globe-grossly inflated figures and situations only marginally based on fact-betrays yours preteen like "tunnel vision" in all the matters that involve Czechs and in larger scale USA.
I am surprised that you did not blame Congo "conflict" on USA too.I guess you did not want to blame Belgium(as former colonial masters of Kongo) for it and knew that to blame USA for that would be too strong even for you.
You know almost nothing about Czech history and even less about totalitarian regimes.
I recall one of yours past comments in which you vented your "spleen" and said that Czech people are hard to control.
I believe that all your billious attitude toward Czechs may had sprung from that;They do not bow to you or celebrate your presence.Your petulance,xenophobia and the "tunnel vision" took care of the rest.
You need to take care of yourself.Take some valium while you are surfing your conspiracy theories and anti-american,loony left websites.
"There are two reasonable conclusions. Either socialism was much better than present propaganda suggests it was, or else it was as bad as that, but the Czechs were too passive and cowardly to do anything about it.
In any case, compared with the true heroism and courage of millions of people around the world who suffer real oppression and are making a serious attempt to free themselves from it, the attempts to do so in this country over the whole of its recorded history are a sad little joke.>
Petra,
I don't quite know where to start.
Your infantile attempt at logic,using comparison from various conflicts around the globe-grossly inflated figures and situations only marginally based on fact-betrays yours preteen like "tunnel vision" in all the matters that involve Czechs and in larger scale USA.
I am surprised that you did not blame Congo "conflict" on USA too.I guess you did not want to blame Belgium(as former colonial masters of Kongo) for it and knew that to blame USA for that would be too strong even for you.
You know almost nothing about Czech history and even less about totalitarian regimes.
I recall one of yours past comments in which you vented your "spleen" and said that Czech people are hard to control.
I believe that all your billious attitude toward Czechs may had sprung from that;They do not bow to you or celebrate your presence.Your petulance,xenophobia and the "tunnel vision" took care of the rest.
You need to take care of yourself.Take some valium while you are surfing your conspiracy theories and anti-american,loony left websites.
#27 Posted by
Paul O Sullivan
Unregistered user
Sep 5, 2009 12:26 pm CET
It would be useful to know where the photographs are exhibited...
#28 Posted by
ian anon
Unregistered user
Sep 4, 2009 8:13 pm CET
Now, 20 years further on; vigilance by a dedicated staff ensure that democratic institutions remain free to grow. The work done by those who ensure what has been built; remains free from 'old political games' is appreciated by many outside the C.R. The C.R. is now the 'leading light' for others who currently are also deciding; 'We wan't to be free and self governing', experience and example have few parallels.
#29 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 4, 2009 5:49 pm CET
>>Peter,it took several people's life and many wounded to trigger the final stage of getting rid of Soviet Union's "yoke."
"Several" is the operative word. Even during the Prague Spring only 52 Czechs were killed: this is a drop in the ocean. Compare that with the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have died defending their country from the US oppressors, or the third of the population of East Timor which died at the hands of the US-backed Indonesian army. There are dozens of countries around the world which have had coups or invasions within the past forty years in which more people have died defending their country. Indeed, if the Prague Spring had happened in Africa and 52 people had been killed this wouldn't even have got into the newspapers. 5.4 million people have been killed by the war in DR Congo, yet many people know nothing of this conflict and could barely find the country on a map.
The fact is that the Czechs voted the communists into power; made little or no attempt to remove them for over twenty years; made a very half-hearted attempt to do so in 1968 and then gave up completely. The events in 1989 were mirrored throughout the Warsaw Pact countries and were obviously not engineered in this country.
There are two reasonable conclusions. Either socialism was much better than present propaganda suggests it was, or else it was as bad as that, but the Czechs were too passive and cowardly to do anything about it.
In any case, compared with the true heroism and courage of millions of people around the world who suffer real oppression and are making a serious attempt to free themselves from it, the attempts to do so in this country over the whole of its recorded history are a sad little joke.
"Several" is the operative word. Even during the Prague Spring only 52 Czechs were killed: this is a drop in the ocean. Compare that with the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have died defending their country from the US oppressors, or the third of the population of East Timor which died at the hands of the US-backed Indonesian army. There are dozens of countries around the world which have had coups or invasions within the past forty years in which more people have died defending their country. Indeed, if the Prague Spring had happened in Africa and 52 people had been killed this wouldn't even have got into the newspapers. 5.4 million people have been killed by the war in DR Congo, yet many people know nothing of this conflict and could barely find the country on a map.
The fact is that the Czechs voted the communists into power; made little or no attempt to remove them for over twenty years; made a very half-hearted attempt to do so in 1968 and then gave up completely. The events in 1989 were mirrored throughout the Warsaw Pact countries and were obviously not engineered in this country.
There are two reasonable conclusions. Either socialism was much better than present propaganda suggests it was, or else it was as bad as that, but the Czechs were too passive and cowardly to do anything about it.
In any case, compared with the true heroism and courage of millions of people around the world who suffer real oppression and are making a serious attempt to free themselves from it, the attempts to do so in this country over the whole of its recorded history are a sad little joke.
#30 Posted by
Jiri Hubacek
Sep 4, 2009 4:45 pm CET
"If it were so easy for the Czech people to "say 'no' to their oppressors" why didn't they do that a bit earlier? Clearly, their input in 1989 was minimal and the decision to let the system fall had already been taken."
Peter,it took several people's life and many wounded to trigger the final stage of getting rid of Soviet Union's "yoke."
It goes with all your attempts to denigrate Czech people to minimize the will of us to be free.
Just look eastward to Bielorus to see what can happen if people won't take an opportunity to take a charge.
Peter,it took several people's life and many wounded to trigger the final stage of getting rid of Soviet Union's "yoke."
It goes with all your attempts to denigrate Czech people to minimize the will of us to be free.
Just look eastward to Bielorus to see what can happen if people won't take an opportunity to take a charge.
#31 Posted by
Peter Andrews
Sep 4, 2009 12:44 pm CET
>>of a people who stood up and said no to their oppressors.
If it were so easy for the Czech people to "say 'no' to their oppressors" why didn't they do that a bit earlier? Clearly, their input in 1989 was minimal and the decision to let the system fall had already been taken.
If it were so easy for the Czech people to "say 'no' to their oppressors" why didn't they do that a bit earlier? Clearly, their input in 1989 was minimal and the decision to let the system fall had already been taken.
#32 Posted by
Edmund I Watts
Sep 4, 2009 10:15 am CET
This is a moment to remember forever, of a people who stood up and said no to their oppressors. Yes, there were others, in other places and times, but this was their moment, and these are the images and the memories for all to see of what can happen when one people stand up and say "No!"
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#1 Posted by
Seamus Jones
Sep 14, 2009 4:46 pm CET
Nevertheless we should not forget the moment when freedom arrived.