Falling on deaf ears

>>Peter,after reading through your past now.provided link to this website I finally understand how deeply involved your mind is within "cons
Blah, blah blah.

The problem is that you cannot answer with intelligent arguments so you resort to childish name-calling.

"Bearing in mind the article; is there not a strong case for an E.U. peace keeping force?"

Depends on if you mean "peace keeping" or "peace making".
Peace keaping under the UN is toothless Tiger-there are many examples of it being just an exercise in futility(in fact often it makes things even worse.)

Of course the European Union is so fractious that it would be almost impossible to agree on which actions would be taken.

"Why don't you just admit that you *don't* know what I am talking about?"

Peter,after reading through your provided link to this website I finally understand how deeply involved your mind is within "conspiracy theory websites."
Your self-imposed "whitewashing" of mind is almost comical especially if you turn it inside out and paint it on someone else.

In the past,I took you half seriously.That surely is a past now.

>>"the notorious "Bay of Pomenkin Incident""? I have googled this without success. Could you perchance be referring to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of 1964, when two US destroyers were allegedly attacked by North Vietnamese torpedo boats? I remember reading about it in the paper. This was used as part of the pretext for large scale US intervention in Vietnam which began in earnest in early '65; the first "surge".

I am sorry: I was writing quickly and put this down from memory. As you probably discovered, the entire episode was an invention of the US military. Their lies were repeated by the controlled US media and this was used as an excuse to send in troops.

Bearing in mind the article; is there not a strong case for an E.U. peace keeping force?

Peter: "the notorious "Bay of Pomenkin Incident""? I have googled this without success. Could you perchance be referring to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident of 1964, when two US destroyers were allegedly attacked by North Vietnamese torpedo boats? I remember reading about it in the paper. This was used as part of the pretext for large scale US intervention in Vietnam which began in earnest in early '65; the first "surge".

Jiri, I am not trying to score points or pile anything on. Your description of Czech resistance, from within The Protectorate as being relatively modest is very generous. I am aware that Czechs fought outside, in fact one of my grand uncles fought with Svoboda in Russia and was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. The fact is, as you state, most of the effective resistance was organised by the communists, love them or loathe them, and it was the communists through the agency of the USSR and the Red Army which played by far the greatest role in the defeat of Hitler, something we in the West never knew about and could therefore not acknowledge until the so-called collapse of communism in eastern Europe.

>>did a decade earlier

Maybe a bit more...

>>Peter,the photopicture you are talking about was one of many and I certainly do not have any link to it as it happened twenty years ago.
As I said the appearance of that one surely was not the cause of the war.
Whether it was genuine or not is quite immaterial as it was just a small single cog of whole machinery-so to speak-that led to Bosnian war.

Why don't you just admit that you *don't* know what I am talking about?

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/LIE/BOSNIA_PHOTO/bosnia.html

The US used this extensively to garner public opinion in favour of intention in Bosnia - much like they did a decade earlier with the notorious "Bay of Pomenkin Incident". As ever, Jiri, you won't have a very deep understanding of world events if you simply believe everything you are told by the controlled media (again, why you didn't learn this lesson when you lived in the CSSR is a total mystery to me...)

By the way,Karel,read the article in this paper called "Scotland honors war parachutists".
While the Czech resistance was relatively modest compared to the ones in other countries,the circumstances were also different in there.
If you wish to minimise it ,be my guest.

"Well Jiri, I would appreciate it if you enlightened me. Come on, off the top of your head, armed resistance by Czechs against the Germans during The Protectorate - what can you add to the limited knowledge I possess."

"I doubt that: post us a link to prove that you are not talking from the wrong end of your intestinal tract as usual."

I feel like a dead one when vultures are closing in.
Just joking,you are free to pile it on.

Karel,Your father was in oposing camp to communist symphatizers who also were in resistance against Germans.
However there was armed resistance to Germans directed from London prior to 1942 when Heydrich was assasinated and consequent Lidice and Lezaky massacre.It pretty well ended after that and the only one organized was by the one run from Moscow.Interestingly enough the Moscw's organized resistance did not exist until Germans attacked USSR.
Your father would not be likely to tell you much about the resistance organized from Moscow as he was pretty much victim of communism.

Peter,the photopicture you are talking about was one of many and I certainly do not have any link to it as it happened twenty years ago.
As I said the appearance of that one surely was not the cause of the war.
Whether it was genuine or not is quite immaterial as it was just a small single cog of whole machinery-so to speak-that led to Bosnian war.
My point (which you refuse to address)is that Europe without USA is a toothless tiger that can't stand on its own feet and is not willing to make any hard decissions without Americans in difficult international crises.

"Karel,you need to educate yourself about this aspect of Czech history.
I am affraid that you had only limited information about Czechoslovakia in those days."

Well Jiri, I would appreciate it if you enlightened me. Come on, off the top of your head, armed resistance by Czechs against the Germans during The Protectorate - what can you add to the limited knowledge I possess.

>>Yes,I do.

I doubt that: post us a link to prove that you are not talking from the wrong end of your intestinal tract as usual.

" Before that there was very little, if any armed resistance in the Czech lands that I am aware of and certainly nothing that could be compared with the Serb resistance between 1941-5. The Protectorate was known as one of the quietest areas under German occupation."

Karel,you need to educate yourself about this aspect of Czech history.
I am affraid that you had only limited information about Czechoslovakia in those days.

Just from purely philosophical point of the view:

There is always somebody better than you...
There is always somebody worse than you..
There is always somebody stronger than you..
There is always somebody weaker than you...
There is always somebody worse off than you...
There is always somebody better off than you ...

Your simile with Serbs is useless in that view and is in fact irrelevant.

"Karel,I thought that you said in one of your past comments that your father fought against Germans in "partizan" resistance during Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia.Am I wrong about it?"

Jiri, that is what I said and it is the truth. I ought to have made my meaning in my last posting a bit clearer as I had the Prague uprising, which occurred only days before the German capitulation, in mind. In any event, the actions in which my father and another family member were involved in occurred in the final few weeks of the war in Moravia. Before that there was very little, if any armed resistance in the Czech lands that I am aware of and certainly nothing that could be compared with the Serb resistance between 1941-5. The Protectorate was known as one of the quietest areas under German occupation.

"Do you even know which photo I am talking about? If not, your opinion is valueless."

Yes,I do.
The wars do not start over one single item no matter how convoluted the conspiracy might be.
Of course the exception is Great Britain where war can start over the single cut off ear.

>>Right,Mr.Conspirator!

Do you even know which photo I am talking about? If not, your opinion is valueless.

"At least they fought the Germans through the whole war, which the Czechs didn't; Czechs waited until the Red Army was a few day's march away. "

Karel,I thought that you said in one of your past comments that your father fought against Germans in "partizan" resistance during Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia.Am I wrong about it?

" Don't forget that the original photograph which sparked the intervention of the Americans - which purported to show Bosnians in a Serb concentration camp - was later shown to be a forgery."

Right,Mr.Conspirator!
While muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo were surely involved in their own war crimes,the Serbs did indeed exceeded this by their overwhelming military superiority(relative to Jugoslavia).


My point is that because the action was in eastern Europe,the western Europe would do nothing at all(except perhaps fire few protest in UN)about this situation without USA.Europe is a toothless Tiger when faced with situations with determined foes and very selective if forced to act.
That is a way of Europe and the main reason why there were so many wars throughout the history with the countless dead and maimed people drowned in the rivers of blood.

"Well Peter,tell us what would Europe do about former Jugoslavia if there were not Americans behind you.
I bet that you would just hide your collective heads in the sand and beg Russia not to occupy the Jugoslavia to help its friends Serbs."

Yes Jiri, what a pity the Russians didn't occupy Yugoslavia. I'm very sure they wouldn't have made such a mess of it as the Europeans and the US have made. Let's not forget Jiri that one of the principal instigators for the independence of Croatia, and thereby the breakup of Yugoslavia(and thereby the bloodbath that was sure to follow - nothing 'velvet' about the southern Slavs, Jiri) was your good friends in Germany. Just paying the catholic Croats back for their unstinting support during WWII.

Serbs always had a good name in my home Jiri. At least they fought the Germans through the whole war, which the Czechs didn't; Czechs waited until the Red Army was a few day's march away.

The Serbs were very badly treated right through from 1991- 99. Bit of an echo of the Czechs in '38, if only one could be bothered to see the pattern.

As for the Americans, for the first time in my life I hoped they would lose, and I cheered when the Serbs managed to bring down that F-117 stealth fighter during the Kosovo war.

God Bless Serbia, and God Bless Russia.

>>You still did not say what Europe would do if there were no Americans involved in Bosnia.

Probably there wouldn't have been a war in the first place. The main purpose of the war, from the Americans' point of view, was to destroy a long-term ally of the Russians. Don't forget that the original photograph which sparked the intervention of the Americans - which purported to show Bosnians in a Serb concentration camp - was later shown to be a forgery. We will never be able to disentangle who really worked for whom, and why. However, we can be reasonably confident that the official version of events has little connection with the truth.

"Jiri: maybe you should have read the rest of my posting before passing comment."

I don't read just a part of comments.
I responded to your constant bloody mindedness about Americans in your reference to "blood."
You still did not say what Europe would do if there were no Americans involved in Bosnia.
Very likely it would be some kind of Munich/Strasbourg Pact with Russians and Serbs to "avoid" the bloodletting and accomplish "The peace in our time"-Bosnians be damned.

Jiri: maybe you should have read the rest of my posting before passing comment.

It's fairly obvious that Srbrenica was a stand-down which was almost as blatant as the one on 9/11. Couple this with Holbrooke's comments and the fact that Srbrenica was given over to the Bosnian Serbs afterwards. It's fairly obvious that the Americans wanted the map "tidied up" a little before settling on the new borders.

"As ever, when there is blood on the ground the Americans aren't far away..."

Well Peter,tell us what would Europe do about former Jugoslavia if there were not Americans behind you.
I bet that you would just hide your collective heads in the sand and beg Russia not to occupy the Jugoslavia to help its friends Serbs.

As ever, when there is blood on the ground the Americans aren't far away...

"Richard Holbrooke, who at the time was assistant secretary of state in the Clinton administration, recently revealed in an interview with French magazine Paris-Match that his initial instructions from US national security adviser Anthony Lake were to sacrifice the three remaining Muslim "enclaves" in East Bosnia - Srebrenica, Zepa and Gorazde - to the Serb nationalists, led by indicted war criminals General Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic."