Thousands flock to see the pope

>>I stand by my comment.If it quacks it is duck.If somebody uses terror,that person is terrorist.

So you agree that when the US invaded - let's say - Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, etc., etc., etc., etc., that was terrorism. At least we can agree on something!

"
Perhaps you could give me some more details. This sounds like something else that you have just made up. In any case, even if this did happen, so what? At most it would demonstrate that one person ever in recorded history used terrorism to promote vegetarianism. This hardly justifies your original comment."

Peter,don't be lazy.Do it yourself there are quite few examples.You can find conspiracy theory websites-you can find these ones too.

I stand by my comment.If it quacks it is duck.If somebody uses terror,that person is terrorist.

>>One of them is that a numerous times these terrorists injected turkeys and other meats in market places with cyanide and other poisons.That indeed makes them terrorists.

Perhaps you could give me some more details. This sounds like something else that you have just made up. In any case, even if this did happen, so what? At most it would demonstrate that one person ever in recorded history used terrorism to promote vegetarianism. This hardly justifies your original comment.

"
If they are using terrorist tactics then they are terrorists.
If you can find an example of a vegetarian using terror tactics to persuade other people to stop eating meat then fine. But this doesn't actually happen in the *real* world, does it Jiri?"

It does not?
I don't know where you were hiding the last few years(maybe in some Mosque)but there is plenty of examples.
One of them is that a numerous times these terrorists injected turkeys and other meats in market places with cyanide and other poisons.That indeed makes them terrorists.You need to pay attention to the world before trying to make a "cute" remarks.
I suppose that you support such a tactic.

>>"Jiri: if you believe that reducing cruelty to animals - or, indeed, persuading others to do the same - is "terrorism" then you have spent too much time reading the Patriot Act."

If they are using terrorist tactics then they are terrorists.
If you can find an example of a vegetarian using terror tactics to persuade other people to stop eating meat then fine. But this doesn't actually happen in the *real* world, does it Jiri?

"The only disapointing aspect was polititions associating with his visit as if he needed 'permission' or direction. the pope came for the people, not the polititions."

In fact,he needs a prmission.Direction he can take from God if he knows how.

"Im looking forward to the day a Boii President is in power and we all get free polevka."

Me too.I want a "drzkovou polevku."

"Jiri: if you believe that reducing cruelty to animals - or, indeed, persuading others to do the same - is "terrorism" then you have spent too much time reading the Patriot Act."

If they are using terrorist tactics then they are terrorists.

Jiri: if you believe that reducing cruelty to animals - or, indeed, persuading others to do the same - is "terrorism" then you have spent too much time reading the Patriot Act.

"In other words, people who care about the environment, or about cruelty to animals.

My, I didn't realise what a fascist you are, Jiri!"

You are confused Peter.
I have no problem with people who have a "cause".I have a problem with the people whose cause makes them to force their ideas on other people,especially if their methods will or might cause injury or even death to innocent people.If it does,they indeed are terrorists no matter how you slice it.

Some of these people-in addition-are chronic complainers if the law will interrupt or punish their terrorist acts.
I have no sympathy for these in particular.

>>Eco-terrorists,rabid vegetarians,etc"

In other words, people who care about the environment, or about cruelty to animals.

My, I didn't realise what a fascist you are, Jiri!

Im looking forward to the day a Boii President is in power and we all get free polevka.

I saw the pictures of people greeting the pope in beautiful weather. I thought it was a good event and if he brings faith and hope to many then thats good.
The only disapointing aspect was polititions associating with his visit as if he needed 'permission' or direction. the pope came for the people, not the polititions.

The pope peruses a lofty ideas in the article brought to us so kindly by Louis.Unfortunatelly,while probably sincerelly felt now,they were not followed in the middle ages.
As it is now in officially Islamic countries,the philosophy of certain doctrines was strictly enforced often by brutal force(just like in Islamic countries now).I will just bring the"Spanish Inquisition" forward, followed in many catholic dominated countries in middle ages.

I say that any dogma,whether it is religious,environmental,cultural or political is inferior in nature if it is deemed needing enforcement by oppressing those that do not quite comply with it for any reason.

Fortunatelly,in today's Europe as well as in North America we do not have to fear if we do not follow the norm.We are free to believe what we want to believe.
We only pay the price of ridicule if our own ideas are illogical.

Having said that,there are those that will try to enforce their beliefs on the rest of population.I speak about "The holier than you" crowd of "greeners,do gooders,Eco-terrorists,rabid vegetarians,etc" that believe that it is needed to "educate" the rest of the populace to their ideas by any means.I will live my life as I see fit while making sure that nobody is going to impose on me their ideas.

Some my say,that the paragraph is out of tune from the rest of my comment but it is not really.The principle is the same and I certainly am not an anarchist.

It is common wisdom that humans are dual creatures.
There are two dimensions in every single human being.In religious terms they are called "Good" and "Evil".In the East they are called "Yin" and"Yang"
These two qualities battle incessantly for the soul.It does not matter who the human being is or what position of power or destitutness he/she is in their life.
They might be King or Pauper,Pope or Atheist,rich or poor,the same principle still applies.

With our lates debate on relative negative or positive influence of the church,people should keep this in mind.
There is no absolute goodness just as there is not absolute Evil.

VATICAN CITY - Only an integral human formation that searches for truth can "oppose the new dictatorship, that of relativism combined with the domination of technology." In fact, no one should "fear the truth" that is "inextricably linked to freedom. Truth is a friend of man and his freedom" and "only the search for truth, goodness and beauty can offer a future to young people. "

This was the message offered today by Benedict XVI drawn from the experiences of his pastoral journey to the Czech Republic last Saturday to Monday. The Pope thanked God for the success of the visit and spoke about its highlights today to the 10 thousand people in the St Peter's Square for the general audience.

His journey to Bohemia and Moravia, "was both a true pilgrimage and a mission to the heart of Europe", a pilgrimage for the many saints and blesseds of that people, and "because Bohemia and Moravia have for over one thousand years been territories of faith and holiness. A mission, because Europe needs to find in God and His love the firm foundation of hope".

"The love of Christ began to reveal itself in the face of a child," he said then, recalling that he began his pilgrimage with a visit to Our Lady of the Victories where the "Child of Prague" is custodied. It "reminds us of the mystery of God made man, God close to us, the foundation of our hope".

"I prayed for children, parents and the future of families". Prague Castle, in the words of the Pope, "contains numerous monuments, environments, institutions, almost like a polis: the cathedral, the palace, the square, the garden. Thus I could touch both the civil and religious which are not juxtaposed but in a harmonious closeness in their distinction"

"It is this indissoluble bond which must always exist between freedom and truth". "Do not be afraid of the truth, because it is a friend of man and only love for the beautiful and the true can offer a future to young people". "Those with positions of responsibility in politics and education must always find light in the truth that is a reflection of the eternal wisdom of the Creator and are called to witness this with their own lives" and "only with a serious commitment to intellectual and moral rectitude can they show themselves worthy of the sacrifice of those who paid the ultimate price for freedom".

This is particularly important in this "difficult time for Eastern Europe that the consequences of atheistic communism suffers the effects of Western consumerism." This, Benedict XVI recalled that he had urged Christians to "be a leaven of the Gospel in society, engaging in charitable activities and even more educational and school.

Moravia, the Pope continued, "makes one think immediately of Cyril and Methodius, evangelisers of the Slav peoples, and therefore the inexhaustible power of the Gospel, which like a river runs through history and continents, bringing light and salvation".

"The Love of Christ is our strength," he said. That truth "resonates with the faith of many heroic witnesses in the remote and recent past, I think particularly of the last century, but above all that wants to understand the certainty of Christians today". Love of Christ, for Benedict XVI, is, in fact, "a force that inspires and animates real revolution, peaceful and free, and which sustains us in times of crisis, allowing us to rise again when painfully recovered freedom is in danger of being lost, of loosing its true meaning".

Continuing to retrace the steps of his visit, Benedict XVI recalled the ecumenical meeting in the Archbishops residence, where representatives of various Christian and Jewish communities were present. "Looking back at history, and the bitter conflicts of the past, it is a cause for gratitude to God to have found ourselves together to share our faith and historical responsibility in the face of current challenges". "The effort to move towards a more full and visible unity among us makes our joint commitment to rediscover the Christian roots of Europe stronger and more effective ".

The "common commitment to rediscover the Christian roots of Europe" also emerged in the pope's encounter with the academic world. In this context, Benedict XVI recalled that he insisted on the role of universities. "The University - concluded the pope - is a vital environment for society, ensuring peace and development, as demonstrated by the so-called Velvet Revolution. 20 years on from then, I raised the idea of integral human formation to counter a new dictatorship that of relativism combined with the domination of technology. "

Q: Your Holiness, as you said at the Angelus last Sunday, the Czech Republic is located not only geographically, but also historically in the heart of Europe. Could you explain better what you mean by "historically," and tell us how and why you think that this visit can be significant for the continent as a whole, in its cultural, spiritual, and eventually also its political journey, in constructing the European Union?

A: Down through the centuries, the Czech Republic, the territory of the Czech Republic has been a place of cultural exchange. Let's begin in the ninth century: on the one hand, in Moravia, we have the great mission of the brothers Cyril and Methodius, who brought Byzantine culture from Byzantium, but created a Slavic culture, with Cyrillic characters and a liturgy in the Slavic language; on the other hand, in Bohemia, there were the dioceses bordering on Regensburg and Passau, which brought the Gospel in the Latin language, and this connection with Roman-Latin culture led to an encounter of the two cultures. Every encounter is difficult, but also fruitful. This could easily be demonstrated with this example.

I will make a big leap: in the thirteenth century, it was Charles IV who created here, in Prague, the first university in Central Europe. The university in itself is a place of cultural encounter; in this case, it also became a place of encounter between Slavic and German-speaking culture. Just as in the century and at the time of the Reformation, it was precisely in this territory that the encounters and confrontations became decisive and powerful, as we all know.

I will now make a leap into the present: in the last century, the Czech Republic suffered under a particularly rigorous communist dictatorship, but it also had a very sophisticated resistance movement, both Catholic and secular. I am thinking about the writings of Václav Havel, of Cardinal Vlk, about personalities like Cardinal Tomášek, who truly sent Europe a message about what freedom is, and how we must live and work in freedom. And I think that from this encounter of cultures over the centuries, and precisely from this last phase of reflection, and not only that, but of suffering for a new concept of freedom and of a free society, there emerged many important messages for us, which can and should be fruitful for the construction of Europe. We must be very attentive to the message of this country.

Q: Twenty years have passed since the fall of the communist regimes in Eastern Europe; John Paul II, visiting the various countries that had emerged from communism, encouraged them to use their regained freedom with responsibility. What is your message today for the peoples of Eastern Europe, in this new historical phase?

A: As I have said, these countries suffered in a particular way under dictatorship, but in suffering they also developed concepts of freedom that are relevant, and that now must be further elaborated and realized. I am thinking, for example, about something that Václav Havel wrote: "Dictatorship is based on lying, and if lying could be overcome, if no one would lie anymore and if the truth would come to light, there would also be freedom." And in this way he elaborated this nexus between truth and freedom, where freedom is not libertinism, arbitrariness, but is connected to and influenced by the great values of truth, love, solidarity, and of the good in general.

So I think that these concepts, these ideas developed during the dictatorship, should not be lost: now is exactly when we must return to them! And in a freedom that is often a bit empty and lacking in values, again recognize that freedom and values, freedom and goodness, freedom and truth go together: otherwise freedom is destroyed as well. This seems to me to be the message that comes from these countries, and must be actualized at this time.

Q: Your Holiness, the Czech Republic is a very secularized country in which the Catholic Church is a minority. In this situation, how can the Church effectively contribute to the common good of the country?

A: I would say that normally it is the creative minorities that determine the future, and in this sense the Catholic Church must understand itself as a creative minority that has a heritage of values that are not things of the past, but a very living and relevant reality. The Church must actualize, be present in the public debate, in our struggle for a true concept of liberty and peace.

So it can contribute in various areas. I would say that the first is precisely the intellectual dialogue between agnostics and believers. Each needs the other: the agnostic cannot be content with not knowing whether God exists or not, but must be searching and sense the great heritage of the faith; the Catholic cannot be content with having the faith, but must be searching for God even more, and in dialogue with others relearn God in a more profound way. This is the first level: the great intellectual, ethical, and human dialogue.

Then, in the area of education, the Church has a great deal to do and to give, concerning formation. In Italy, we talk about the problem of the educational emergency. It is a problem common to all of the West: here the Church must again actualize, make concrete, open to the future its great heritage.

A third area is "Caritas." This has always been one of the marks of the Church's identity: that of coming to the aid of the poor, of being an instrument of charity. Caritas does a great deal in the Czech Republic, in the different communities, in situations of necessity, and it also offers much to suffering humanity on the different continents, thus giving an example of responsibility for others, of international solidarity, which is one of the conditions for peace.

Q: Your Holiness, your most recent encyclical, "Caritas in Veritate," has received attention in much of the world. How do you assess this attention? Are you satisfied with it? Do you think that the recent global crisis is essentially an occasion on which humanity has become more willing to reflect on the importance of moral and spiritual values, in order to face the great problems of its future? And the Church, will it continue to offer guidelines in this direction?

A: I am very content that this serious discussion is taking place. This was the aim: to provide incentives and reasons for a discussion on these problems, not to leave things be as they are, but to find new models for a responsible economy, both in individual countries and for the totality of humanity as a whole. It seems to me that it has really become clear today that ethics is not something outside of the economy, which could work mechanically on its own, but is an inner principle of the economy, which does not work if it does not take into account the human values of solidarity, of reciprocal responsibilities, if it does not integrate ethics into the construction of the economy itself: this is the great challenge of this moment.

I hope, with the encyclical, to have contributed to this challenge. The debate underway seems encouraging to me. Of course, we want to continue to respond to the challenges of the moment, and to help make the sense of responsibility stronger than the desire for profit, responsibility toward others stronger than egoism; in this sense, we want to contribute to a humane economy in the future as well.

Q: And to conclude, a somewhat personal question: over the summer, you suffered a slight injury to your wrist. Do you think it has recovered completely? Have you been able to resume all of your activities, and have you also been able to work on the second part of your book on Jesus, as you wanted to?

A: I have not yet recovered completely, but you can see that the right hand works, and I can do the essential things: I can eat, and above all, I can write. My thought is developed mainly through writing; so for me it was really a burden, a school of patience, not to be able to write for six weeks. Nonetheless I was able to work, to read, to do other things, and I also made a little bit of progress with the book. But I still have much to do. I think that, with the bibliography and everything that is still to be done, "Deo adiuvante," it could be finished next spring. But this is a hope!

Yes,it is funny.I am sure that there are many other words like that.
But it is a "nature of the beast".The languages are intermingled everywhere.The same thing is happening between english and french.Many latin words are used in other languages and who does not know the spanish"Numero Uno" or "Nada."

my question:
how many of the thousands upon thousands of visitors were actually czech?

Jiri, speaking of the German language, did you know that, while Czechs call the baked apple cake "strudel", or occasionally "apfel strudel", the Germans call it "zabaleny jablicka". I have never been able to get to the bottom of this. Any thoughts, LOL.

Well,what is it Louis?
In one of your comments you said that Sieczynski was born in Prague and in another you said that he was born in Morava.Which one is it?

By the way,I said that Jesuits were in control in Habsburg empire after Bila Hora.That is based on fact of history.
I have no problem with your assertion that they were a"cultured and educated".I know a bit about a "Society of Jesus" and I know that they are an elite of Katholicism.
That does not make them any less responsible for the religious and cultural repressions of the past ages.Neither it does absolve their protectors and supporters in Habsburg empire.

Hey Louis,who really cares if the song is German or Austrian.It is written in German and that is all what matters.
It is a bit "strong" to be getting any "lessons" from maudling Rakusan,immodest peacock that is strutting irrelevant factoids that he picks from history of Europe.(and any other tidbits such as opinion of arts and archeology)
Do I detect a "chip on the shoulder" as far as Austrians and Germans go?
I heard that Germans think of Austrians as a lesser "cousins' but as it did not concern me I did not pay any attention to it.
From your comments it seem like you are aware of it only too much.
Relax boy,under the God's law we are all equal.

Karel I will tell you, in 1938 Otto von Habsburg and his brothers and sisters helped to escaped to Switzerland and Hungary thousands of Austrians of Jewish ancestry, and that song was particularly hated by the Nazis, excepting those who were born in Austria. My own family went to exile and in spite of our social condition the Nazis remembered quite well that we have Jewish ancestry as well, no matter that we were and are Catholics for centuries. By the way, Lotte Landau a friend of my mother whose father was "Hofreisedirektor" and was a Jew, her whole family were denounced in Prague by some "pure Czechs" who happened to be their neighbours, and perished in Teresienstadt. Meanwhile Otto von Habsburg appointed Joseph Roth and Franz Werfel two Austrian monarchist of Jewish blood, as his advisors in Washington DC and worked strongly against Benes who was blocking our Thronfolger of entering to the White House, who finally did it in 1941.

Mr Wetzler, I will have to cede to you on this one; there's nothing like a primary source. Every mention of RS on the web I have come across has him born in Vienna, including Wikipedia. Perhaps you might correct Wikipedia. My Encyclopedia Brittanica doesn't even mention him! Personally, I prefer Caprice Viennois by Fritz Kreisler, a Viennese Jew. Perhaps you know it? Speaking of Viennese Jews, I have one as a friend. He is 87 and plays violin with me in a small orchestra. Occasionally I go to his home and we play duets. He left Vienna in 1938 for some strange reason. For him it is not "Wien, du Stadt meiner Träume" but rather,
Wien, du Stadt meiner Alpträume. I wonder why.

Jiri your stubbornness sounds typical of a Stalinist or a Nazi the only truth is your truth, but never real facts of life had history, than even children can find in a history book for "Gymnasium" or secondary schools. By the way, the song is Austrian and not German, when Prince Ernst von Hohenberg sang the song in Dachau with a Jewish tenor; both were beaten by the guards of the Concentration Camp. WE ARE PROUD TO BE Schwartz und Gelb Österreich (Black and Yellow-Austrian), never German, as Prince Ernst von Starhemberg and the Imperial Family responded when they were deprived in 1938 of the "German citizenship", they were exiled and just pointed out, we are and we were Austrians for centuries, why they will take us away something that we aren't?

Not at all,Louis.
For me,Pope means nothing but I acknowledge that he represents over a billion of people,and in that context his official visit to Czech Republic is OK with me.(not that anybody cares one way or another what I say anyway)
As the rest of your "disertation" ,that is taken as always from your biased and limited viewpoint so I am not going to engage in any further discussion with you about that save to aver that I stand by what I said.

By the way,I don't know that german song and obviously it means nothing to me.

By the way, if Prague is one of the most beautiful cities in the world alongside with Paris, Vienna, Saint Petersburg, Budapest and others are thanks to all the architects of the Habsburg era, the whole city was in permanent construction excepting the old town. You have the "Bohemian Art Nouveau" The avant-garde tendency of Art Nouveau spread all over Europe, for example to Prague from Vienna, where Jan Kotera designed the Peterka-House on Wenzelsplatz in every detail, up to the door handles. Artists used symbolic figures, animals, historical figures to represent certain virtues and aims.

Glorification and mysticism are closely connected to the Jugendstil. Mainly male artists presented young women as angel like, supernatural creatures, reducing these creatures on pleasure and sensuality.

Jugendstil comprises all disciplines in art: architecture, painting, sculpture, literature. Great artists were following this movement, just to mention some: Gustav Klimt - the Austrian painter in whose paintings ornament and figures become one, Josef Maria Olbrich - the Austrian architect, who designed the building for the members of the Secession, which was to become a key work of Viennese Art Nouveau.

The Jugendstil in Vienna and Prague had a special position within the international development:

In the late 19th century there was quite accordance between the Viennese and Bohemian artists and there colleague in France, Belgium, and England.

Starting with the 14th exhibition of the Viennese Secession (1902), which was followed by Prague right away, there was a strict move to independency from other countries with the benchmark of The "Suppraportenrelief", a cubistic engraving in plaster, designed by Josef Hoffmann for the foyer of the Secession building.

Das ist nich klar, he was born in Moravia where his mother had a property, in spite of what some sources says. My great grandfather met him and both knew quite well each other and he had his vacations in our property in Carlsbad. His grandfather was born in Cracow, but the rest of his family were Moravians, Slovaks and Magyars as well. We do have some letters of him addressed to my family.

Mr Wetzler, Rudolf Sieczynski was born in Vienna, not Prague, and he was of Polish ancestry, not Czech. Das ist klar! Czechs have their own golden city to sing about; they don't need Vienna.

"Jiri Hubacek
Sep 30, 2009 5:00 am CET
"In times of the House of Habsburg was a total freedom for all churches of the Empire"

That is patently untrue. Jesuits controlled everything (in religious and even in state matters) since the Bila Hora battle as their deep influence within Habsburg dynasty attests to.

You need to peruse the history far more logically and fairly than you do in order to be taken seriously.
Now, that you are visiting the Czech Republic, it is time for you to spend some time on the other side of the mirror that you have been looking into from Argentina. There are many venues you can go to-primary one is Karlova Universita and National Museum above "sochy Svateho Vaclava."

Jiri first I am not in Prague, disgracefully I was going to visit my friends our ambassadors, and from then to Nikolsburg (Mikulovo now), where the former owner of the Schloss (who has a perpetual right to stay there whenever she wants) and her daughters are amongst my best friends, my trip was going to finish in my adorable Wien, By the way do you remember the song "Wien, Wien, nur du allein. Sollst stets die Stadt meiner Träume sein ! Dort, wo die alten Häuser stehn, Dort, wo die lieblichen Mädchen gehn ! Wien, Wien, nur du allein Sollst stets die Stadt meiner Träume sein! Dort, wo ich glücklich und selig bin, Ist Wien, ist Wien, mein Wien ! Author Rudolf Sieczynski, born in Prague, a Czech, for you maybe a traitor?

Jiri again your knowledge of history is full of preconceptions and falseness, the Jesuits weren't responsible for the war between Friedrich of the Palatinate "King" of Bohemia, chosen by the Protestant nobles and "bourgeois" of Prague, even their presence in the lands of the Holy Empire were not as important as their presence in Spain, France and Italy. The Jesuits are extremely cultivated, intelligent and in those times, they gave their lives to struggle against Protestantism in England, Scotland and Ireland, where they were massacred like thousands of Catholics. I imagine that for you the presence of HH Pope Benedict XVI, one of those who work hard for the declaration of Emperor Karl I as a Blessed man of the Church, must be and insult for your high intellectual skills. But going back to the Order of Jesus, they were expelled from the Empire by Kaiser Joseph I who was an open Mason, like your presidents Masaryk and Benes. The death of Empress Maria Theresa on November 29, 1780, left Joseph as the only sovereign. He immediately directed his government on a new course. He proceeded to attempt to realize his ideal of enlightened acting on a definite system for the good of all. The measures of emancipation of the peasantry which his mother had begun were carried on by him with feverish activity. The spread of education, the secularization of church lands, the reduction of the religious orders and the clergy in general to complete submission to the lay state, the issue of the Patent of Tolerance (1781) providing guarantee of freedom of worship, the promotion of unity by the compulsory use of the German language (replacing Latin or in some instances local languages)-everything which from the point of view of 18th century philosophy, the Age of Enlightenment, appeared "reasonable"-were undertaken at once. He strove for administrative unity with characteristic haste to reach results without preparation.

In addition, Joseph abolished serfdom in 1781. Later, in 1789, he decreed that peasants must be paid in cash payments rather than labour obligations. These policies were violently rejected by both the nobility and the peasants since their barter economy lacked money. He also abolished the death penalty in 1787. During the XIX Century from Kaiser Franz I to the last Emperor Karl, all religions were recognized and respected in all the boundaries of the Empire, as Franz Werfel a great Austrian historian from Jewish ancestry wrote in his book about the Habsburg dynasty. Only under the Habsburg rule Jews were respected and admitted in liberal arts and even many were knighted, or created barons and counts. By the way, Count Istvan Tisza de Bórós Jeno was Hungarian Prime Minister like his father was Austrian Chancellor and both were Lutherans. So please Jiri go to Karlova University and study real history not fairy tales, you are an expert on the latter.