Fallout from Canadian visa dispute continues

To Mr.Edward Barner - you don't know realy what you are talking about! There is so many
Roma children in state care, that's why people can adopt them faster. Thy outnumber enourmosly czech children. And if nation is racist oriented, how come they adopt these children? There is so much rasism going on here in Canada, but canadien MUST be politicly
correct! In our daily lives we witness so many hypocrats, pretensions.... And by the way it is not a white men suppresor, because etnic group have racist tendencies agains each other.

problem is, nobody wants them(Roma ) in Europe. I lived there for 40 years. And let me tell you,they are trouble.They are pretty talented as it comes to music and dancing. Otherwise they are not villing to go to school or work.

During communist they had all the priviligies. All for free.After getting rid of communist power
they were told"you want to be like other citizen,you have to go to school,work,pay taxes like everybody else. Well,Romas think it is not fair. My boys on their way to school had to bribe them with toys,just they don't beat then up. They steal,rob and occasionaly you find descent one (like my yongest son violin teacher) And he was great. Unfortunately he was exception.
One think I would like to add. They lived in much better conditions then Natives in Canada.
Canada should sweep first on their own steps. And finaly come up with inteligent requirements for refugee status.

The crucial area)- When will the social inclusion policy due out in October as stated by the government be in the public domain. Seeking a soloution to the central areas of concern has to be the way forward. This will a complex area of policy that the E.U. must engage in light of enlargement of the European Union expected in the next 20 years. In light of neglect of policy over many decades by many countries, the efforts being made by the current administration need the support of the larger E.U. community and a framework that offers hope as opposed to entrenched institutional stagnation has its intitial implimentation.

ian dowie: "Since Canada lifted visa requirements for visitors from the Czech Republic in 2007, roughly 3,000 people have made refugee claims."

http://www.atlanticcallcentres.ca/news/canada/article/667060

"The Immigration and Refugee Board has since 2007 accepted 118 Czech asylum applications claiming "a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership of a particular political group."

http://www.dose.ca/news/story.html?id=1752224

Both of these articles were published this month.

Mr Andrews, the percentage rate of accepted application status so far in 100 cases has been 85, that is 85% see Toronto Lawer Max Berger, thats an exodous .

Simone Biano: Canada has more than enough immigrants without needing to encourage refugees "because they need fresh hands to work." First, because most cannot speak English and are therefore virtually unemployable in Canada; and second, because most are sent home anyway because they don't qualify for refugee status. On the contrary, refugees are a huge burden on the Canadian taxpayer.

Mr Kobac,Well done for 'pushing the agenda' to where it needs to be. I guess you don't need me to tell you wou will need friends. An agenda without legal binding equality will founder in deep seated predudice. I admire what you do greatly, good friends and 'the defeat of that which has no defense' will be your gratest allies. This has little do to with Canada or the Czech Republic, more mans inhumanity to man, may the force be with you.
Love Ian

Hmm. Tricky issue. Having lived in the Czech Republic, and been visiting most years since 1993, the 'Roma Issue' is a theme always beneath the surface of Czech life that is at best brushed under the politcal carpet.

For a modern EU democracy many find it medieval and barbaric that the Roma are treated the way they are - and before you shout - yes, I've heard all the arguments about them being 'lazy, criminals, degererates, lay-a-bouts' etc. That may have washed pre-1989, but this is the modern age, you can't write off an entire ethnic group.

At best visa issue will bring things into focus and force the Czech government to at least bring about a long lasting solution (other counties have managed similar feats). At worst it will be another embarrasing news story for the Czechs to downplay.

If there's one saving grace there - the next door neighbour Slovakia - seems to be grabbing more headlines with it's xenophobic policies.

Is it not the policy of all E.U. countries to inform other countries if thier data base shows that a person travelling is linked to extremist groups, say, neo-nazi, and those that are activists (david duke) are granted visa'a on discretion of host countries security assesment. If the Czech Govt are going to fine it own citizens for letting the press know what many view as 'etremist meetings, then surley letting the Canadian govt know in advance those they deem as extremist would clear this up.

The Czech Republic's visa application process for Americans has been such a "degrading" experience for me that I'm going to need to apply for asylum in Canada!

"In fact Canada has by far the most generous refugee program in the world. The Czech Republic, on the other hand, has one of the least generous"

How do you define "generous"? From your statement one can only conclude that you grew up being fed by the North American/Canadian propaganda portraying Canada as the country equivalent to the well know term "Deutschland uber alles". The reason why Roma were flying to Canada was the perception generated by immigration body in Canada that they are being accepted and given free ride. This is not a generosity but rather luck of any training and understanding by employees reviewing the applications. It is very simple: you cannot be a political refugee if you are citizen of a democratic country, which of course the Czech Republic is. Period. The reason why Canada accepts refugees is very straightforward, they need fresh hands to work. It is system based extensively on idea of "who is needed" instead of "who needs to be helped". Do you think that if you were prosecuted somewhere in a thrid country and you were old enought that, if accepted, you would be only a burden to the health system without any chances to "return" the benfit by paying taxes in the future, do you think that you would be accepted? Very, very, very, very, very likely NO. The fact is that the so called "generosity" is based only on economic benefits that it brings. And the fact is that without immigration both Canada and US would be very much worse off economically.
Have been there and have seen it.

p.s. The real generosity may be tested by the actual (not committed) foreign aid, which is more quantifiable. Canada is doing very poorly here compared to other countries

>>Canada is a very selfish country. The want to portray themselves as very generous country, whereas they in fact give very little in real terms.

In fact Canada has by far the most generous refugee programme in the world. The Czech Republic, on the other hand, has one of the least generous.

Canada is a very selfish country. The want to portray themselves as very generous country, whereas they in fact give very little in real terms. EU should impose visa on those that want to come to Europe from Canada and should make them pay high fees, ask stupid questions on the visa application and treat them like a piece of junk when they enter Europe (and yes, they should travel to Mexico City to get the visa).

I view this as a larger issue than Canada v. Czech Republic. How can the EU continue to function with 27 member states acting as individual states in some respect, and as a whole in other? Either the Czech should be allowed to instate visa requirements for Canadian citizens, or every member of the EU (or perhaps more logically, the Schengen zone) needs to be viewed as one in terms of where they are and are not allowed without a visa. With the enlargement of the EU, Eurozone, Schengen, etc., we cannot continue to keep viewing these states as seperate.

>>Canada is a sovereign state, and has every right to impose visa restrictions.

Absolutely. And unlike the Czech Republic, whose laws are now written in Brussels.

Well, I think it would be up to canada to review their asylum requierments, and to implement a list of broblematic countries such as the Czech Republic. By such, categorically refuse all asylum demands from this country & stick with normal emigration status. Then this problematic would be resolved & ending this hypocritical ball game. The Check Republic, in my opinion can be more than proud of their social & cultural system as far as educationnal, transport & genral cultural level far grather than any north american country. If the Czech Republic cant label the ROM comunity with a specific passport , then Canada must act & empliment some emigration law that will make it verry difficult for this type of asylum abuse.

This is a complex and disgusting issue. All players are hypocritical beyond belief and have lost any credibility if they ever had any.

The least serious offender, Canada as a sovereign country has the right to introduce visas as it pleases. However, introducing visas in order to eliminate possible applicants for asylum coming from a country where they are prosecuted defeats the purpose of the asylum regime. It seems that Canada wants to pretend to be generous to refugees without actually having to do anything for them.

As usual, the EU sticks its head in the sand. The EU regulates every aspect of our lives, it even grants "EU citizenship" to the citizens of its member states, but - in the face of the Czech authorities' unwillingness to guarantee even the most basic aspects of the right to life of Czech residents - the EU is unable and unwilling to enforce even the most basic living standards for EU residents. So one has to wonder, if the EU cannot do something, what is the EU good for?

And the Czech Republic, what can I say? Organized Nazi groups are allowed to carry out night-time terrorist attacks with impunity against civilian dwellings, and the Czech authorities - instead of addressing the fact that the country is strictly speaking becoming a failed state (because what else is a country which cannot protect the lives of its residents from armed Nazi groups) - prefers to fuss about marginal issues instead of addressing the fundamental problems facing the Czech society and political system.

Mr edward L. Barner Barner is right to point out that the Czechs need to sort out their relationships with other countries on a more mature level. However, unfortunately he seems to have swallowed a bit too much American propaganda for his own good.

>>but is an atrocity to try to bring democracy to the middle east?

That was never the aim of invading Iraq. All the official excuses for the invasion were clumsy lies and that is the most absurd of all of them. Be a bit less naive and stop relying on Fox News for your "information"!

>>a missile base, which will bring millions to the Czech Republic, and offer protection to all of Europe

Protection from what? The only country we need to be protected from is the US.

LETTER TO THE EDITOR:

It was with great interest that I read "THE FALLOUT" front page story. (see July 22-28 edition: praguepost.com) The comment of Jaroslava and Pavla MACH that "They felt even to have to ask for a visa was degrading." was laughable. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Over 14 years of visa applications, after investing millions of dollars in the Czech Republic, I have been spat upon, arrested, detained and spent literally weeks in line begging for a visa all at the hands of the FOREIGNERS POLICE.

Notwithstanding all the lip service that the Czech people and government give to the Roma equality issue it is simply myth. If there was any sibilance of a future for a person of Roma heritage in the Czech Republic then why would they be flocking to Canada and any place else in the world they may get an even break. The Czech Republic doesn't want them and now they have the audacity to point a finger at Canada for controlling the influx of Roma asylum seekers in an attempt to reduce the burden on their already over burdened social system. From "WHAT" are the Roma's seeking asylum? From the disgraceful and abusive treatment they receive in the Czech Republic. This is just more of the hypocritical actions I have come to know and abhor while living in the Czech Republic. This country and its' people should be ashamed of themselves. They are the ones that started this mess and whatever comes they should take it. They have nothing about which to complain.

The most shameful example of STATE SPONSORED RACISM is the law that Czech parents wishing to adopt can get a baby of Roma origin in less than a year while it is a three year wait for a Czech baby. The reason is not availability of Czech babies, as the state continues to warehouse babies and damage them beyond repair, it is simply a racist ploy to get the Roma children out of the door. Perspective foreigners wishing to become adoptive parents can only adopt Roma or handicapped children. This must make any normal person shutter and yet it is Czech law.

After America granted free tourist visas to Czech citizen, having been blackmailed for access for a missile base, which will bring millions to the Czech Republic, and offer protection to all of Europe the Czech Government introduces ridiculous visa requirements for Americans wishing to live in the Czech Republic.

If our President had any perspective on world and European history we would not be apologizing but reminding all of Europe and especially the Czech Republic of how we have spent billions to rebuild them from a war that didn't involve America. Why was it O.K. To get involved in defeating Hitler to save Europe but is an atrocity to try to bring democracy to the middle east? Criticism of America by Europe and the Czechs is the epitome of UNGRATEFULNESS. SHAME ON YOU!

Interesting to note that there are 250,000. Czechs in the USA who have overstayed their tourist visas. I expect them to apply for asylum soon ... Asylum from what? The hypocrisy, ingratitude and racist policies of the Czech Republic.

Our welfare is rather full in canada

Canada is a sovereign state, and has every right to impose visa restrictions. These are not done on a whim, and are clearly correlated to asylum statistics. To suggest that Czech Republic has been reduced to the status of a banana republic is insulting to those countires that do have visa restrictions.

eek, you were applying for visas for 50 years till few years back, whats so degrading about it now?

If Mr and Mrs Mach say they felt it was degrading to apply to Vienna for a visa to visit Canada; can you imagine how degrading it is to be Czech and begging for asylum from the Czech Republic in Canada. I do not believe that the Czech Republic is a bad country. The E.U. comminissioner for justice, quote, 'serious errrors in its a pproach to Roma citizens'. Asking the rest of the E.U. to join a visa ban on Canada reveals the astonishing level of deep rooted denial similar to that found in deep south of the USA in the early human rights struggle there. The fundemental admission that at all levels of local, regional, and national government; that exclusion is the norm must be smashed. No one doubts the task ahead presents a myriad of problems that the Czech Republic should not shoulder alone, this is an E.U. issue that has reached a point that 'not wanting to upset the status quo and risk ridicule' is no more than appeasment to the sanctioning of human degredation by comfortable denial by those paid to serve as opposed to label; segregate and force a fellow citizen to seek decent recognition in a country that he craves will be ' a home'.

>>Roma rights activist Gwendolyn Albert fears Kenney's rhetoric, in particular the phrase "false asylum seekers," is dangerous. "It simply fans the flames of the neo-Nazi campaign to paint all Roma as swindlers," she added.

So what should he have said? They quite obviously are swindlers: even by Canada's asylum laws - easily the most liberal in the world - the overwhelming majority were found to not be eligible for refugee status. They were only refugees in their own minds: certainly not by the standards of the Geneva convention.

Genuine refugees are people who are in fear for their lives, not just those in fear of racial prejudice. They are supposed to go to the next safe country, not the one which has the highest welfare payments or the most liberal policies.

Perhaps Ms Albert could go to a factory in Canada and talk to some of the workers - she can try explaining to them why they should have to work full time in order to support somebody from another country who cannot speak English and who has no marketable skills. And why Canadians should be shamed because they don't feel like solving somebody else's problem.